The Impact of Parenting on Moms and Their Mental Health

Welcome to the show today, and I am so glad you’re here. I want to start today by sharing something that my friend Amy sent to me yesterday. This is a meme entitled “How to be a mom in 2017. “We could actually change that to “2024” because it still applies to us today.

Make sure your children’s academic, emotional, psychological, mental, spiritual, physical, nutritional and social needs are met. While being careful not to overstimulate, under-stimulate, and properly medicate, helicopter, or neglect them in a screen-free processed foods-free, GMO-free, negative energy-free, plastic-free body positive, socially conscious, egalitarian but also authoritative, nurturing, but fostering independence. Gentle but not overly permissive, pesticide-free, two-story multilingual home preferably in a cul de sac, with a backyard and 1.5 siblings spaced at least two years apart for proper development. Also, don’t forget the coconut oil.

Then, it goes on to say, “How to be a mom in literally every generation before ours. Feed them sometimes.”

Oh my gosh, we were having a huge conversation about how we can feel so exhausted that we can feel like we’ve lost ourselves as moms or feel like we’re constantly abandoning our own needs.

If you are relating to this, you’re going to love my special guest today Heather Chauvin. Heather has been named the next-generation thought leader in parenting and women’s leadership. She’s the author of Dying to Be a Good Mother and the podcast host of Emotionally Uncomfortable, and Heather’s work supports women to manage their energy and time so they don’t have to sacrifice their impact at work or at home with their kids. And her mission is to crack women open to their deepest potential and lead the life their soul craves.

There are so many nuggets of wisdom and goodness in this episode, so let’s dive in!

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What You Will Learn:

How to abandon the victim mentality, prioritize one’s own emotional needs and desires rather than constantly sacrificing them, and cultivate fulfillment through personal growth and self-awareness even while parenting tweens and teens.
How to reflect on “Wouldn’t it be nice if” prompts to connect with your desires and feelings.
Managing fear and emotions while parenting a struggling teen.
Parenting and control, with a focus on trusting instincts and embracing unconventional learning paths.
Recognizing and prioritizing personal feelings over external goals.

Where to find Heather and Mentioned in this episode:

Website: https://www.heatherchauvin.com/
Instagram: http://instagram.com/heatherchauvin
Heather’s Book: https://www.heatherchauvin.com/book
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/heatherchauvincoaching

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And here is the episode typed out!

Welcome to the Moms of Tweens and Teens Podcast. If some days you doubt yourself and don’t know what you’re doing. If you’ve ugly cried alone in your bedroom because you felt like you were failing. Well, I just want to let you know you are not alone, and you have come to the right place.

Raising tweens and teens in today’s world is not easy. And I’m on a mission to equip you to love well and to raise emotionally healthy, happy tweens and teens that thrive.

I believe that moms are heroes, and we have the power to transform our families and impact future generations. If you are looking for answers, encouragement, and becoming more of the mom and the woman that you want to be, welcome. I am Sheryl Gould. And I am so glad that you’re here.

Hey, friends,

Then, it goes on to say, “How to be a mom in literally every generation before ours. Feed them sometimes.”

Oh my gosh, we were having a huge conversation about how we can feel so exhausted that we can feel like we’ve lost ourselves as moms or feel like we’re constantly abandoning our own needs.

SHERYL: Welcome, Heather, to the Moms of Tweens and Teens podcast. I am so excited to have you on today.

HEATHER: Thank you, Sheryl. I love these conversations, especially when we’re like, I’m so excited; we’re gonna get into it.

SHERYL: Oh my gosh, I love everything you’re doing and our alignment. It will be an exciting conversation for all our listeners, and I want to talk about emotional well-being.

It is such a challenge and a struggle for moms of tweens and teens, and how to support our kids with their emotional health and where that intersects where it intersects with us nurturing our emotional health and also our kids in such a challenging age.

There’s so much going on, as with three boys. How many do you have? One teenager? Two teenagers?

HEATHER: Yeah, my boys are 19, 14 and 11. Right now. So.

SHERYL: You’re in the tween and teen phases. I want to ask you to tell our listeners how you got here and how you do what you’re doing.

HEATHER: Oh, yeah. It’s funny to talk about emotional well-being and emotional health because that was never in my awareness growing up. My parents never talked about it. This is newer in generational conversations.

Most of us don’t do the work until we have to do it, and then something becomes so emotionally uncomfortable in our lives that it’s like it’s put in front of us. So for me, I was 18 when I became a mother; I was a teen mom. And I was not intentional, but pre-motherhood, I was the child, the teenager who, in hindsight, didn’t know any of this, but I had a rebel inside of me.

So, I was a questioner and not a plus student. But I would retreat. So I say my addiction or my drug of choice was sleep, like my body would shut down. I did not know what was happening inside my body and mind.

And so the adults around me would say, What’s wrong with you? Why are you acting like this? Get up, let’s go. And I did not know my body. I did not know my nervous system; I did not know my emotional well-being.

Being a kid, I just felt heavy, physically heavy. I’m just shutting down. And so I’m going to sleep, and I’m just going to surrender to what is right.

Which affected my education, which affected my relationship with my mother, which affected my mental health, and then got me into a relationship that was not healthy, and I got pregnant. And so, but here’s the caveat, and I’m telling this for a reason: I got pregnant.

And I remember looking at my son for the first time, thinking, I do not want to become a statistic. I do not want my child to become a statistic. And that there were these primal nests inside of me that the switch kind of flipped on, but I think it was fear-based because I did not want to fail at my primal purpose as a mother.

I just didn’t want to do that. I think, in hindsight, looking back, I was trying just to be terrified of my child ever feeling the way that I felt as a teenager. I did not know that then, but the primal instinct was to run away from that and to heal that. So then I became an overachiever.

Before, I was considered an underachiever, but then I became an overachiever. So I was doing everything but doing them from a place of fear. So, who do I need to become? What do I need to do?

I went from barely passing high school to never taking a university credit to figuring out how to get into a university. I paid my way and got everything while I was single while raising my son. Sheryl, this is where the cultural conversations for women and parents in general need to change because I’m getting pats on the back.

I’m called supermom, I’m called Superwoman. And inside my body, I’m having conversations in my mind like this. Oh my god, I can’t live like this. This is not sustainable. How am I going to survive? No, no, no, no, not this, not this. Not this. Like, I’m this is not good. I could feel the train wreck coming.

But I was so afraid to figure out how to stop that I just kept going, kept going, kept going. And so I got educated. Thank goodness my mom let me stay at home. But I remember trying to figure out how to live on my government assistance, trying to, quote, unquote, work-life balance. And so here I am, building my life, building my life.

And then fast forward nine years, and within that chunk of time, I got educated, I became a social worker, and I’m now working with families at-risk families. I’m noticing something that these children in these families come in with, of course, generational trauma. Still, the parents don’t matter where you are in class, like upper class, middle class, or lower class; they deeply care about their children.

And they’re saying, I don’t understand these children, I don’t understand their behaviors. And the authorities are labeling these behaviors, right? They’re labeling these families. And I go in, and maybe it’s just because of my situation. And I’m like, these kids need tools; these parents need education. So they need to be inspired and help with the transformation, not judged, put down, or given a label or a pill and just said, like, good luck, Buttercup.

I could see that, and nobody else could. Of course, I went into social work, wanting to impact people’s lives. Then, I realized that these adults in power and authority were not helping these people; they were just perpetuating a cycle. So, I left social work. I started a podcast, and I started my own business.

I started working with parents, helping them see and understand their children’s behavior. This is what happened: I was working with these parents, and we were working on child behavior. I’m trying to give them tools and strategies. And then Sheryl, I would hear things like, I don’t have time to implement this. I don’t have the capacity. My marriage is falling apart. I hate my career. I don’t have the energy for this.

And I was like, okay, but that’s not what we’re here for. We’re here because you wanted help with your child’s behavior. Let’s focus on what the child is telling us. Let’s focus on the child’s behavior. And at the same time, I was diagnosed with cancer at the same time as I was in a startup in my business. And in that moment, I realized, remember, I have nine years under my belt of personal development. So I’ve already invested personally, I’ve invested in parenting, I’m now invested in business.

So, I’m not new to self-awareness. But what I was new to was this last layer. I mean, there are always more layers, but this last layer was like, as a woman, you can no longer pretend that your needs do not affect your relationship with your child.

You need to realize that how you desire to feel is part of the equation. And then that’s when the book came to me: “Dying to Be A Good Mother,” and it’s not about how my body was physically dying. It was how I was self-abandoning constantly, physically, emotionally, spiritually, and financially, my desires, my mind, my body, and my soul to serve everybody else.

To a point where that self-abandonment, that chronic self-abandonment, my physical body was going to die. I was not going to be good for anyone. And so it’s the coming together of who I want to be in my one precious life that matters, and being a mother or being a business owner or being a wife, sister, friend, daughter, all the things are extensions of me.

Still, at the core of everything, I have to reverse engineer how I want to feel in my life, which, I mean, we can talk about the whole cancer journey and how I did that has allowed me to have the presence and fulfillment to then support my children in their emotional well being as well and what they need at the moment. So I could go on and on. But yes, that’s what got me to where I am today.

SHERYL: That’s powerful. That’s powerful. And you made so many just connections that resonated with me. And it was interesting how you said when you would shut down, it was like, that’s the sleep piece.

That’s what I do. I can still tell if I’m shutting down like that’s still a way, and I can recognize it. I’m okay; I’m shutting down. And I want to go to sleep. And that’s like a dashboard light for me.

What am I feeling? What do I want to avoid? What am I not wanting to confront? My main need is to set a boundary; I’m scared, too, and it’s uncomfortable. That’s why I love your podcast, Emotionally Uncomfortable. And so I’d rather sleep in; that was my way of coping growing up. It’s just sleep, shut down, don’t feel it, or medicate or self-medicate in a way.

HEATHER: What’s interesting about this is culturally, like, I never really drank or did drugs. That is a red flag for parents of, like, they’re doing this, they’re doing this. But culturally, especially once you get older, the message is rest, rest, rest. And I’m like, stop telling people to rest.

And I’m all about how you want to feel. So, do you feel rested if you sleep or take a nap? Great, you’re headed in the right direction. But honestly, rest to me when I want to, like, hide or retreat, and I’m like, Oh, my God, I got 12 hours asleep, I don’t feel rested, I might need more sleep is not going to allow me to feel rested.

So then I need to dig into what that is. And sometimes it’s going for a walk. Sometimes, it’s going for a run; sometimes, it’s like having emotionally uncomfortable conversations. And so that is the piece where I’m like, we need a different level of self-awareness. It is not about doing less. It’s really about asking yourself, like, how do I want to feel because what that is for you, there will be some seasons in your life where you’re like, Okay, I need more physical sleep versus Oh, no, I’m just doing it as a coping strategy.

SHERYL: Yes, yeah. Nobody’s talking about this. That just strikes me. I love that you’re talking about it because it is true. How do we feel versus you just needing to rest? How do I know that? I’m not avoiding feeling uncomfortable by resting. And I’m just shutting down?

It’s a different way of looking at things. So you talked about self-abandonment. And I love thinking about it. Like we’re abandoning ourselves. And so, how did you find your way back to yourself? When you are busy, I was wondering, working, and achieving what you were running from. I know there are two questions.

HEATHER: I’ll answer that. Then, I want to return to how I identified this in my teenager.

SHERYL: Okay, love it.

HEATHER: As a teenager, I’m observing how this pattern of self-abandonment starts to please the parents and how we can identify it in our children because I’m watching it in my son right now. I’ll tell him, and I’ll call him out about it.

I just want to raise awareness because I can see the connection between parents and children. They want to please us just as much as the opposite—like they want to do the opposite of what we want to do. And everyone has a story of that.

They’re either like I did this because my parents wanted me to become this. Or I did the opposite because I didn’t respect my parents. And so we’re so interconnected. I think self-abandonment starts early.

So, I never knew what self-abandonment was. I didn’t know who I was, but I will tell you this. I was raised with a mother who did not know who she was and lived in a chronic state of survival just because she had to; she was a single parent as well.

She worked, and she’s taught me so much in a positive way. I feel like figuring out who I was and who I am because that’s a chronic cycle. And feeding that woman, that part of myself, is serving my mother. It’s like breaking those patterns, passing the baton, and being like mom; like, I got it from here.

And I’m going to feed myself, but I’m also going to take care of and serve you. So there’s a deep-rooted part of that in myself. But that’s self-abandonment. To come back to who I am. The funny part is, I always question whether I know if it’s just who I am.

I have no idea. But I was always like, is everyone else feeling like shit? Are you guys okay out there? I was always like, Why? Why is everyone okay? Why is everybody just doing the thing and burning out? And being like, this is what it is like, how come?

Nobody questions society. And why are they not doing anything about it? Even today, I have friends who’re all approaching middle age, and they’re still on the hamster wheel.

And I’m like, you want to learn to do that thing, go do that thing. Well, my husband won’t let me or my children, and I’m like, stop blaming other people for why you can’t do something; your husband would have no issue with you taking up this hobby; you are self-absorbed to please other people.

Because you’ve always been a people pleaser, and you are not self-aware enough to identify this pattern within you. And once you decide that you want to change, you need to again become emotionally uncomfortable and sit in the feeling you have always avoided.

And so, for me, I was used to feeling like crap; I knew what depression felt like hardcore. And so my actual identity was in that state. And so feeling good. And I hope people can hear me when I say this: feeling good was emotionally uncomfortable for me.

And so the closer I got to myself, the scarier it was. So cancer, when I had my diagnosis, and I talk a lot about this in my book, I physically remember having a moment where I checked the box, and mentally I was like, I am done, suffering. I have met my quota.

And because for years before that, I was mentally done suffering. But I didn’t allow myself to be done, done, done. Like, leave. Like, I remember leaving the toxic culture of motherhood. I was curious about it before; you’re on Instagram and see memes of martyr syndrome and victim mentality. I now will unfollow, and I’m like, trying to create belonging with other parents through your suffering, and victim and martyrdom is bringing everyone down with you. That is not a rising tide lifts all ships.

You are also bringing them down because you’re trying to create connection and belonging. I want to create connections with people who want to thrive. I do not want to create a connection with people through our drama because it’s incredibly toxic.

And so people will say, raising teenagers, ah, so hard. And I’m like, it is so difficult. Yes. Imagine being a teenager or putting yourself in your child’s body, like putting yourself in your child’s situation. Like there are friends of my kids or parents of my children’s friends who, every time I talk, it’s all about how hard their life is.

And I’m like, Have you spent any energy investing in how you want to feel? I’m putting myself in your child’s shoes because I cannot. It’s very difficult for me to connect with you. When all you want to do is complain about what’s not working in your life. You’re chronically investing there.

So, very early on, I realized I felt alone because I wanted to feel good. This is very interesting because I knew there had to be another way, and I had to learn to fight. For my joy, I had to learn to fight to feel good fighting with myself and get out of this cultural conversation.

SHERYL: I love that. Oh, gosh, that’s almost like being addicted to misery and suffering. And you wanted to shift out of that. And you recognize that I’ve reached my quota. And there’s something in it. That can feel toxic, but I think you have to get uncomfortable because there’s a part of that shutting down being miserable.

That can be delicious in a really weird way because it’s a way to avoid living your life. And so when you’re feeling your feelings and stepping out of that, that can be real. That’s the unknown, and it can be scary.

And being addicted to that misery and indulging in it. You’re like, I don’t want to do that anymore. What was scary about that for you when you decided to fight for your joy? Or was it scary? How did you feel?

HEATHER: Yeah, so there’s a story I tell in the book. And this kind of goes into how I teach people how to get there. So, Danielle Laporte, I don’t know if you’re familiar with Daniella Laporte’s work, but she had a book come out around the time I was diagnosed; it was called The Desire Map.

I was very into personal development. Suppose anyone has ever heard the words manifesting abundance. In that case, I could not figure out all the things I could not conceptualize how to put feeling-good personal development manifestation into my modern-day parenting life.

Because I was like, It’s not about vision, boarding, and meditating all the time. The second I open my eyes, I yell or want it like I couldn’t. And so, for whatever reason.

For me, the light bulb went on in her book, The Desire Map; I took away that it’s not the thing you’re after but the feeling. And so one of my favorite journal prompts is, wouldn’t it be nice if? I’m not asking you what you want. I’m not asking you what you want to change. I’m asking you, kind of, what are your desires?

Wouldn’t it be nice if you took two minutes right now or after listening to this conversation? And you’re like, Wouldn’t it be nice if everything you write down could be about your children, yourself, and the things inside of you that want to come out? And it’s not the actual thing that you want. It’s the feeling, so wouldn’t it be nice if I didn’t have to work next week?

Wouldn’t it be nice if we could move? Wouldn’t it be nice if I made a million dollars? Wouldn’t it be nice if my children just listened to me and I didn’t have to yell and tell them at times? What is the feeling that you’re after? Well, maybe the kid thing could be respected. Right? I want to feel respected. Wouldn’t it be nice if I felt spacious and free?

Then you get the feeling. And then I always say, I have a hat over here that says how do you want to feel like I’m constantly asking myself? How do I want to feel? And that’s my North Star. So I’m always focused on it. When I wanted to feel good, I asked myself what I needed. I knew it wasn’t the thing I was after.

We were so culturally conditioned to go after the goal, okay, I’m gonna hustle and abandon myself until I reach the goal, and then you reach the goal, and you’re like, okay, the goals here, but I’m depleted. I feel unfulfilled. People say that in parenting, too. I’m just gonna do the best that I possibly can until my children are out of the house or until they’re in school or until they’re in middle school or until they’re in high school.

Like we just keep moving the goalpost. Guess what? Your kids leave the house, and you’re lost and still a parent. You don’t stop parenting at 18 years old.

SHERYL: No.

HEATHER: This, then, is like, oh, a new level, a new devil. There are new skills that you need to learn. So it’s like getting the foundation in place. So, the story I was telling inside my book was that I knew all of this. It’s not the thing I was after. It’s the feeling I come home one day; I’m in the middle of treatment for my cancer diagnosis. And I did talk about my cancer diet.

Yes, I did talk. I’m like telling you so many stories. I did talk about my cancer diagnosis. So, I was in the middle of my treatment. Okay, so I came home; I have nothing inside of me. I’m like, no energy, nothing. But I’m having an actual panic attack in the middle of the night. Go into the bathroom.

And the story I’m repeating in my mind is, I’m going to die. I’m going to die. I’m going to die. I’m very scared. Okay, my body’s in a chronic state of fight or flight. And I could get myself. I had enough self-awareness and self-coaching that I stopped myself. And I came back to present, and I’m like, Heather, how do you want to feel? I’m like, I want to feel alive. Okay. Are you dead? No, I’m not. I’m still physically alive. Like I am here. I’m alive. But I want to feel alive.

So I got my brain, the story in my mind of, I’m going to die, I’m gonna die, I’m gonna die. I’m gonna die, too. I am here; I am alive. I want to feel it. How do I want to feel? I want to feel alive. I want to feel alive. I want to feel alive. I started repeating how I wanted to feel. And then more fear came over me.

At that moment, I realized I had no evidence in my life of what aliveness felt like. This feeling that I was after was uncertain to me because I didn’t have any former life experience of what aliveness felt like; feeling depressed, feeling lacking, feeling not enough was my only weight of existence, and then feeling, and then I started overachieving; I still felt lack because I was exhausted, I was fatigued, but I it looked like I had more on the outside.

And so I had to get crystal clear on what aliveness looked like. From that day forward, I started asking myself, wouldn’t it be nice to ask myself what a live version of me would do? And I didn’t know, I had to create it. So I’m like, What wouldn’t a live person do today? When she has nothing? She’s gonna get out of bed and take a shower.

And I just kept doing that. What would, and I wasn’t pushing. I wasn’t hustling. I wasn’t like an all-or-nothing mindset. It was chipping away at that version of myself. How do I want to feel? And so I’m still asking myself that because I’m the current creator of my life.

So I’m like, How do I want to feel mentally, physically, emotionally, spiritually when things get out of alignment? I’m going back into what action I need to take today. This week? Next week? What conversations do I need to have to get back in alignment with how I want to feel?

That’s one part. That’s me getting back in alignment, not self-adjecting, and looking at my stuff. That’s a whole other conversation of, like, well, now I’m raising a teenager, and my teenagers are triggering the crap out of me, and my teenager is struggling. So, how do I show up for them? Doing that work has greatly improved my parenting and set me up for success when my child became a teenager, and now the other two are following suit.

SHERYL: Yes, and doing your work? And how has that looked? How has that helped you? Are you going through all of that to be a better parent for your kids?

HEATHER: So, a few years ago, I started to be very challenged with my oldest child’s behavior. And I always say, I talked about it in the book, like that problem, the child is your greatest gift because they’re just triggering. If you have a bruise, wound, or fear, they’ll find it and trigger it. And so, I knew a part of me was being triggered, just like a deep, deep, primal Fear.

And I can talk about those fears. But I also could see that I had to figure out how to hold my fear and not parent from a chronic place of fear while also seeing how he was struggling and how I needed to advocate. I needed to use my voice and advocate on his behalf. We had to do things unconventionally, and I also needed to become a leader and a champion and not give up on him.

Like I needed to hold him, which took a lot of energy, like, I needed to curate my energy, so I could hold him and, and like coach him and be like, You got this, we’re gonna figure this out, like, I know you want to be in bed all day every day. Still, like, You got to show up, and I get it; we can go down the rabbit hole of getting you a diagnosis and putting you on medication. There’s nothing wrong with that.

But you still need to show up. And we need to push through this resistance. Do we need to chip away? And I also had to come back to my emotional well-being of, like, I want to scream, I want to yell, I want to say the most hurtful things to my child right now because I’m in my red zone. And I want to be like, who do you think you are? Then I’ll go in a shame spiral. And I may do that, but I must return and repair it.

But at the end of the day, I also have to see that my child is struggling. They’re trying to figure out who they are and what this next phase and season of their life is, and I need to help them navigate that. They also do not want help from their mother. And so it’s you’re navigating all of this in this emotionally uncomfortable tunnel everyone’s walking through.

SHERYL: Yes, ah, the fear piece. I mean, that is what it’s like fear. And then we want to control, as you said, by wanting to fix it and give advice versus really managing our own uncomfortable emotions and that fear and being able to come alongside him.

And I think in our fear, that’s when we want to jump in there, that’s when we want to fix. And that’s when they’re like, boo, back off. What I learned is we create the very thing we don’t want. And by trying to control things, my oldest was my greatest teacher. And the more I tried to control her, the more I pushed it, and it just inflamed our relationship so much more. It just doesn’t work.

HEATHER: The hardest thing is that my podcast, which used to be called “Mom Is In Control.” And then I changed the title to Emotionally Uncomfortable because when we try to control ourselves externally, we just feel out of control internally. And so you can see how you just think about it.

If you constantly try to control how you look, it’s because you feel out of control internally; if you’re trying to control other people’s behavior, it’s because you don’t know how to control your emotional behavior.

And, like I tell people, I read behavior as a language, which is very vulnerable for people. But I can just observe what you’re trying to control and tell you exactly what you’re avoiding inside of yourself.

But children are a beautiful teacher of that. And I could see myself becoming controlling. And he just would look at me and be like, are you done yet? Like, let me know when you’re ready to let go because you’re pushing me or controlling me for him. It didn’t push them away. He was. He just stood steady.

And he was like, let me know, essentially, when you’re ready to surrender; he didn’t say that. But that’s what his behavior was doing. Because, like, I would try to control some things like, how’s that gonna work out for you? And I’m like, it’s not gonna work out. Right? So I’m like, dammit.

But I realized that once I did surrender and let go, I wouldn’t be able to get you out of bed at night every day. I’m not. So I had to do what I had to: watch this child become an adult. I want everyone to hear me feel their emotions and the natural consequence of their behavior.

So you don’t get the grade if you don’t go to school. And I just had to watch and wait, and then that part of me was like, I need to fix this. I need to rescue this.

I always use the analogy of going bowling, like watching from afar. I’m not going to let them drown. But I’m also gently asking, okay, what will we do about this? And the more you shut down, then I’m just like, okay, he hasn’t hit his rock bottom yet, right, but if it’s becoming disruptive in our home to the point where it’s, out of control, I’m like, listen, if you don’t figure this out, I gotta take this to the next level.

And that may require you to be removed from the home that may be required. What we ended up doing was pulling him out of school. And the school didn’t agree, my husband didn’t agree. And I just was like, I’m here to keep my child alive. And so I pulled them out of school. And I said that’s fine if you don’t want to attend school. You don’t have to be in this conventional way.

But you’re not going to be home all the time. So you have to go get a full-time job. And then we’ll do unconventional learning, but I said you will finish your high school diploma. So we got a tutor. He finished he finished school while he was working full-time, and his mental health skyrocketed. But at that moment, I had to trust my instincts and go against what everyone else was telling me.

SHERYL: Ah, I thank you for saying that. Because we have this path that we think it’s supposed to look like, and our kids will take different paths, it will not all look the same. And you had to be willing to sit in that discomfort to support him. And I see that a lot. Working with moms I saw in my own life.

It’s like I wanted to control things. So I could feel better. At least it felt like when I was controlling things, maybe I was doing something. But actually, it was getting in the way. It’s very, very counterintuitive. And I’m sure that was not easy for you, especially when you had pushback from people around you.

HEATHER: Yeah, and there are two things that I often reflect on who was the adult that I needed? And I don’t mean that’s all we’re doing. Parenting is incredibly selfish. I don’t know if anyone has realized that.

I’m living to reparent my younger self. For example, when my child is struggling in my head, I’m thinking, Who was the adult I needed?

Parenting is the most selfish act of all. And I think it is hilarious that we think giving it to ourselves is selfish. And I’m like, it’s selfish not to, like we’re egocentric. And like, I’m a parent; look at me, look at my trophy child. Like, it’s ridiculous.

We are so self-absorbed as parents, and it’s like, oh, now I have children. That’s my identity. Okay, good. It is just that it is so selfish when you think of parenting. As my child gets older, I observe what people are like. What’s he doing? Who’s he going to be like? What’s his education? What’s the job that he’s gonna get?

And I’m watching myself protect my ego when people ask me that question because who cares? Like, oh, my child became a doctor? Is your child happy? A lot of the physicians I talked to are miserable, but it’s like, oh, well, it’s good for my ego.

Parenting is so self-absorbed. And it’s fascinating to watch. So when we can be aware of that and just learn to respect our child and their own human experience, it is incredibly beautiful to watch how they grow up. But wow, we think we have control; we have no control.

SHERYL: It is beautiful to watch. And I know we have to go. Gosh, I feel like we hardly even touched. We’re going to have to have you back on and schedule another time because we hardly touched the tip of the iceberg. I mean, this was just so good.

And such a conversation that we need to be having. And I know that our listeners, it’s like you’ve given them new things to chew on and to think about, and what is like one thing that I want to tell everybody where to find you and about your podcast and your book, but what’s one thing that you want to say in closing that you didn’t get to say because we talked about so many things?

HEATHER: Oh, I used to think I was screwing up my kids. And I think that’s one of our biggest fears, especially after I had my diagnosis. And when I surrendered, I was the exact person that my child needed in this life. Regardless of whether it’s biological or adoption, they chose me to guide them through this life.

When I accepted that fact, it took a lot of pressure that I needed to perform a certain way. I also realized that parenting is a relationship. We are not here to control or manipulate. And just like any intimate relationship that you truly care about, if you can say, I don’t have the answers, but I’m willing to grow.

You will always have a child that will come back home. We can control all we want until they reach a certain age and are independent. And they say, See you later. I felt controlled for so many years. I’m out of here. And I’ve seen amazing things happen to people.

You can always repair it. There are so many things my parents could do now if they wanted to or tried. I think there’s also a generation of so much shame. They can repaired easily just by having a conversation or writing a letter. It’s never too late.

And so just look in the mirror, say what this says about me? What work am I not doing? Ask your children for feedback. If they feel safe enough, they will give you honest feedback. And remember, you are so imperfect, and that’s okay. That’s okay.

SHERYL: It also gives some permission to be imperfect. Yeah, that’s very good. I love that. We’re exactly who our kids need. Right. I love thinking about it like that. So tell them where to find what you want.

HEATHER: So I talk a lot on my podcast, Emotionally Uncomfortable. You can find it anywhere you listen to podcasts. Go to the website https://www.heatherchauvin.com/. My book is there. You can get my book on Amazon or wherever books are sold online. It’s just a journey. It’s like starting somewhere, listening, and learning; you will get to where you need to go if you stay open.

SHERYL: So good. Thank you so much for being with us.

HEATHER: Thank you, Sheryl.